By Civil Service World

05 Dec 2011

Permanent Secretary, Welsh Government


What are you most proud of achieving during 2011?
The biggest thing has been seeing the organisation reduce in size by 1000 people. We've done that entirely voluntarily and we havenít dropped our pace at all. That is just an enormous change to us as an organisation and it means that we will have achieved the financial savings we have to deliver - which is £77m in real terms - six months into the first year. We had three years to do it, and weíve done it in six months.

How has the shape and structure of the Welsh Government changed?
Lower numbers, a flatter structure, and more teamworking wherever we can get that in place. And of course in the middle of this weíve had an election, a referendum, a change of portfolios - which required some restructuring - and a brand new programme for government. Weíve delivered all of that whilst releasing 1000 people.

What's the most important thing for the Welsh Government to achieve in 2012?
Delivering the programme for government: both hitting the early milestones for that, and embedding structural change. Although we've taken our numbers down, our staff survey engagement score has gone up; 77 per cent of our staff took part in the Civil Service People Survey. Now weíve got to embed different ways of working.

How do you think the civil service will change in 2012?
In Wales, we have to identify and bring in the things we need more of. We deliberately allowed slightly more people to go than we really needed to release because we know that weíve got some skills imbalances, so we need to have more capacity in legislation: both lawyers, and programme managers. Therefore, I think we will invest over the next year as we begin to identify exactly which key skills we need.

This issue of de-layering will be important - not necessarily by merging grades, but by reducing the number of levels through which communications have to pass. It will be flatter and less hierarchical. Thatís at the heart of what weíre trying to, because weíll only achieve more if we are really flexible with the people weíve got.

I also think a lot of these things apply to the wider civil service, too. Every organisation is reducing the numbers of people it employs, and therefore has got to think more imaginatively about how it uses the people itís got. We have particular problems as a government, in that we cover very large numbers of policy areas: 20 devolved areas have very low numbers of staff in any one area, so we're very vulnerable to increases or changes in work. We also tend to do more delivery in-house than is traditionally been the case in Whitehall. We absorbed our armís length bodies some time ago, so we deliver lots of direct services as well as doing high-level and high-quality policy work.

One of the things we have in-house is our own "Lean" team looking at how you change systems, and weíre about to invest in some significant training for more programme managers because we think that's one of the skills that will be essential.

Which historical, mythological or contemporary figure would you most like to join for Christmas dinner?
Dr Who, definitely; there is nobody else. Because he's real... he's somebody who's seen everything - history, the future ñ heís just fantastic and, of course, we're particularly proud because Dr Who is made in Wales.

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